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	<title>Ariel Arrieta  [D-MTKG] &#187; México</title>
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		<title>Latin American Economy Perspective</title>
		<link>http://arielarrieta.com/en/2009/01/27/latina-american-economy-perspectiveperspectiva-economica-de-latinoamerica/?utm_source=rss&amp;utm_medium=rss&amp;utm_campaign=latina-american-economy-perspectiveperspectiva-economica-de-latinoamerica</link>
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		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Jan 2009 19:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aarrieta</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Entrepreneurship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[america central]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[Last week the citi group sent me a Latin American Economic Outlook and Strategy. I usually consider the financial research off-topic in my blog, but I think this data could be important for entrepreneurs in our region and I want to share it with you: Argentina © aarrieta for Ariel Arrieta [D-MTKG], 2009. &#124; Permalink &#124; [...]]]></description>
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<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/imagen-3.png"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-1100" title="imagen-3" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/imagen-3-465x168.png" alt="imagen-3" width="465" height="168" /></a>Last week the citi group sent me a Latin American Economic Outlook and Strategy.</p>
<p>I usually consider the financial research off-topic in my blog, but I think this data could be important for entrepreneurs in our region and I want to share it with you:<span id="more-1099"></span></p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Argentina</strong></p></blockquote>
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<p><small>© aarrieta for <a href="http://arielarrieta.com">Ariel Arrieta  [D-MTKG]</a>, 2009. |
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		<title>Second Day at the Blog Event in Spain EBE08</title>
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		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 19:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>aarrieta</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Marketing Online]]></category>
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		<description><![CDATA[The second day at EBE08 was as intense as the first one. It is an event where there are more than 1000 bloggers, expressing their different opinions on any topic, here goes my version in this post. It was difficult to start in the morning and when I arrived, the Table of Projects and Entrepreneurs [...]]]></description>
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				<img src="http://api.tweetmeme.com/imagebutton.gif?url=http%3A%2F%2Farielarrieta.com%2Fen%2F2008%2F11%2F17%2Fsegundo-dia-del-evento-blogs-espana-ebe08%2F&amp;style=normal" height="61" width="50" /><br />
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<p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :WordDocument> </w><w :View>Normal</w> <w :Zoom>0</w> <w :HyphenationZone>21</w> <w :PunctuationKerning /> <w :ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w :SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w> <w :IgnoreMixedContent>false</w> <w :AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w> <w :Compatibility> <w :BreakWrappedTables /> <w :SnapToGridInCell /> <w :WrapTextWithPunct /> <w :UseAsianBreakRules /> <w :DontGrowAutofit /> </w> <w :BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w> </xml>< ![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w> </xml>< ![endif]--><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">The second day at EBE08 was as intense as the first one. It is an event where there are more than 1000 bloggers, expressing their different opinions on any topic, here goes my version in this post.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">It was difficult to start in the morning and when I arrived, the Table of Projects and Entrepreneurs had already finished. It was presented and moderated by Emilio Márquez (Networking Activo).</span></p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-marquez.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-870" title="ebe-marquez" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-marquez-400x300.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="300" /></a></p>
<p><span id="more-869"></span></a></p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-marquez.jpg"><!--more--></p>
<p>Photo: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeetkunedo/3032095055/">By Eugenio</a></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">As I was not present and not to leave the chronicle incomplete I reproduce the concepts expressed by </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.alejandrosuarez.es/2008/11/la-importancia-de-comunicar-en-startups-reflexion-del-ebe/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB"><span> </span>Alejandro Suárez, who in addition of being a friend has de doble role of entrepreneur and investor: </span></a></span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Ipoki:</span></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">I liked </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.ipoki.com/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">Ipoki</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> better, i have heard about this startup through a friend some time ago and even though I haven’t invested much time on it, I really liked it….</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">It is a little difficult to distinguish the business mode as a real economic opportunity, but this boy knows exactly what he is doing, if he doesn’t go crazy with the costs and he needs to generate returns, as of today I think is a project with a future.<span> </span>I believe a lot in geolocalization, but we need to find a better use than to just put a little map with where you are on your blog. There are thousand of applications like security, leisure and ohther that will come that you can work on. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">My only critique: talking about international expansion in Spain on a project that hasn’t been positioned yet. Step by step my friend.</span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">I have liked the entrepreneur and I think that is a critical issue. </span></strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><span> </span>I will pay more attention to your web and I will test it. It looks good if you find a clear business model, and some new applications with focus on amore real economy. </span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Smmart:</span></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">It is an annalytical tool, at the url </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.analisisdemedios.es/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">www.analisisdemedios.es</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> ¿? The name Smmart seems too complicated, and it is not related to the url. It sound like something too far fetched. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">It is focused as a tool for agencies, for bloggers and diagnostic tool for SEO and SEM. I will try it. It doesn’t seem to interesting as a business model and a startup but I think we could be clients of this type of services if it is so effective as they sell it.<span> </span>It could be useful as a comparison and follow up tool of the competition. </span></p>
<p><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Widgatget:</span></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">I heard about this company some time ago and I thought it was an intresting initiave and with a future. In fact yesterday I met </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.isabelsabadi.com/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">Isabel Sabadí</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> at the office of <span> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.yes.fm/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">Yes.fm</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> since we are looking into our developments of Widgets for the project Yes. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">The idea is to be able to bring widgets and music into blogs, and that the users can share their own playlist, as well as to develop desktop alert to be able to include a player in the desktop of the users. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Isabel says: “we were lucky, and to convince that it could work, we had to develop it”. I think is pretty accurate, you have to develop things “and show a bit and around here is very common to “sell” projects and ask for money without having developed or showing that you are capable of doing it. I think it is a key point for example for </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.widgadget.com/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">WidGadget</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> to get the first client on the first day, the City Hall of Barcelona. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">I think that Isabel knows her job and her sector very well. She knows it, they develop future solutions and have a clear added value, as well as clients that support their applications.<span> </span></span></p>
<p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :WordDocument> </w><w :View>Normal</w> <w :Zoom>0</w> <w :HyphenationZone>21</w> <w :PunctuationKerning /> <w :ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w :SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w> <w :IgnoreMixedContent>false</w> <w :AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w> <w :Compatibility> <w :BreakWrappedTables /> <w :SnapToGridInCell /> <w :WrapTextWithPunct /> <w :UseAsianBreakRules /> <w :DontGrowAutofit /> </w> <w :BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w> </xml>< ![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w> </xml>< ![endif]--><strong><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Mobifriends:</span></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">We couldn’t see the video. It was a shame, it got stuck. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">It is a service to meet friends by mobile phone. In the past it was a service of geolocalization that was not working, so they modify it.¿?</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Today they have opened </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.mobifriends.com/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">Mobifriends</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> the private one (it was right to take advantage of the EBE to open and communicate). It is complicated to position in chat and dating as services, but it can be an added value to positioned dating companies. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">At 11:30 started the presentation of </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://alt1040.com/author/eduardo-arcos/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">Eduardo Arcos (Hipertextual)</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> <span lang="EN-GB">named Always connected.</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">With a very good presentation relating the effects of the online life and the life streaming, how it is today and what he thinks are going to be the new modes and effects of this trend in the near future and getting experiences from events such as the TechCrunch50</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Eduardo promised to send me the presentation, so if he does it I will include it. </span></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-eduardo-arcos.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-871 aligncenter" title="ebe-eduardo-arcos" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-eduardo-arcos-350x300.jpg" alt="" width="350" height="300" /></a></p>
<p>Foto by: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/ganso-org/3031046273/">ganzo.org</a></p>
<p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :WordDocument> </w><w :View>Normal</w> <w :Zoom>0</w> <w :HyphenationZone>21</w> <w :PunctuationKerning /> <w :ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w :SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w> <w :IgnoreMixedContent>false</w> <w :AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w> <w :Compatibility> <w :BreakWrappedTables /> <w :SnapToGridInCell /> <w :WrapTextWithPunct /> <w :UseAsianBreakRules /> <w :DontGrowAutofit /> </w> <w :BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w> </xml>< ![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w> </xml>< ![endif]--> <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">BTW, a comment on the side when you meet him in person your first impression is that he must be from Argentina with that witty humor, but he is Ecuadorian. </span></p>
<p>Then after being 12:00 <strong>Tom Raftery (RedMonk)</strong> gave, to my opinion, <strong>the best presentation of the day: Grid 2.0</strong></p>
<p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :WordDocument> </w><w :View>Normal</w> <w :Zoom>0</w> <w :HyphenationZone>21</w> <w :PunctuationKerning /> <w :ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w :SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w> <w :IgnoreMixedContent>false</w> <w :AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w> <w :Compatibility> <w :BreakWrappedTables /> <w :SnapToGridInCell /> <w :WrapTextWithPunct /> <w :UseAsianBreakRules /> <w :DontGrowAutofit /> </w> <w :BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w> </xml>< ![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w> </xml>< ![endif]--><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Describing the little evolution that the electronic net had in the last 100 years, comparing them to phones, and what I assumed was going to be another presentation on how to offer Internet services through electrical networks ended up being a business model based on variable costs of the electrical supply and on how to take advantage of the current technology. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Using the generation of an alternative energy, using the cars to save energy and to buy energy when there is an over generation of it and selling it when the demand higher. To store energy as cold or hot and using technology to make a more efficient usage of it, if it is possible to align the economic objectives of the ones that provide the service with the one that use it. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">He showed the cases where this seems science fiction it is a reality, and opened a world of opportunities to explore. My only observation is that it is a maket so regulated that I don’t think that we can see this in our region and I hope to be wrong for everybody’s wellbeing. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> Here there is a brief video provided by </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chemalara/3031962300/" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB"><span> </span>Chetxe</span></a></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Whoever wants to read more about this I recommend the book </span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Big-Switch-Rewiring-Edison-Google/dp/0393062287" target="_blank"><span lang="EN-GB">Big Switch by Nicolas Carr</span></a></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> <span lang="EN-GB">which I have already included in my next purchase. </span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">After this we went out to lunch and for more networking. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">To stop the heaviness post lunch and closet o 3:30pm started the Latin American round table under the name of “The hispanic vision of Internet” </span></p>
<p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :WordDocument> </w><w :View>Normal</w> <w :Zoom>0</w> <w :HyphenationZone>21</w> <w :PunctuationKerning /> <w :ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w :SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w> <w :IgnoreMixedContent>false</w> <w :AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w> <w :Compatibility> <w :BreakWrappedTables /> <w :SnapToGridInCell /> <w :WrapTextWithPunct /> <w :UseAsianBreakRules /> <w :DontGrowAutofit /> </w> <w :BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w> </xml>< ![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w> </xml>< ![endif]--> <span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">The speakers were Gustavo Arizpe (Mexico), Mariano Amartino (Argentina), Christian Leal Reyes (Chile) and Joan Guerrero (República Dominicana) where Paco Olivares (Canal Sur) was the moderator.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">The talk was very connected to the audience via twitter, eventhough Mariano had forgotten his glasses in Buenos   Aires and couldn’t read from far.<span> </span>Mainly the topic was around the usage or not of the neutral Spanish (too much for my liking) (soap opera, American, castillian, or I don’t know what this really means) and if it is necessary to hide or not the linguistics features.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">A surprise related to the language was that somebody from the table, I don’t remember who had read Mariano Amartinos for a long time and didn’t know that he was from Argentina. </span></p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-mesa-latam.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-875" title="ebe-mesa-latam" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-mesa-latam-400x300.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="300" /></a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/aarrieta/3031478903/">photo by me</a></p>
<p><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :WordDocument> </w><w :View>Normal</w> <w :Zoom>0</w> <w :HyphenationZone>21</w> <w :PunctuationKerning /> <w :ValidateAgainstSchemas /> <w :SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w> <w :IgnoreMixedContent>false</w> <w :AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w> <w :Compatibility> <w :BreakWrappedTables /> <w :SnapToGridInCell /> <w :WrapTextWithPunct /> <w :UseAsianBreakRules /> <w :DontGrowAutofit /> </w> <w :BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w> </xml>< ![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w :LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w> </xml>< ![endif]--><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Following this table came what it was supposed to be the most important part of the event, Bret Taylor CEO of FriendFeed, millionaire, former employee of Google, on of the minds behind Gmail, who got bored after Google Maps and decided to leave the company. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;">Maybe due to expectations I had, I was hoping that we would talk more about his story and to tell some experience that would leave a message, instead I was told how a product that I have been using for a while works and its value, so the conference instead of being the best talk, left me disappointed, even though the wise interview of Mariano Amartino. </span></p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe_brad.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-878" title="ebe_brad" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe_brad-450x300.jpg" alt="" width="450" height="300" /></a></p>
<p>photo by : <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wicho/3031711167/in/photostream/">Wicho</a></p>
<p>A little later than 6pm we had the bold proposal of taking a family picture including the more than 1000 bloggers in the stage in several rows.</p>
<p>Of course not everybody could get in the picture but luckily not everybody tried to be in it.  While we were going on stage there were many uncomfortable questions such as, Do you think that the stage can hold everybody?</p>
<p>If you are reading this post and not a yellow press newspaper is because the stage was strong enough to hold us.</p>
<p>I took this picture trying to show the typical mess of trying to organise so many people to take one picture piece by piece and later was going to be edited. Another great job of the event coordinators.</p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-backstage.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-879" title="ebe-backstage" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-backstage-400x300.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="300" /></a></p>
<p>The next track without meaning to be that way was the most bizarre one and the most hillarious of the day (because it was the closure of the event which my countryman Hernan Casciari from Orsai was in charge of).</p>
<p>The title was &#8220;Estate of the Blogsphere&#8221; and the presentros were <a href="http://martanauta.wordpress.com/">Marta Pastor</a> (RNE), the amusing Ricardo Galli (Menéame) and a sckeptical Josera Portillo Zifra (Sevilla University) everybody moderated by Chiqui de la Fuente (El Pais).</p>
<p>Further than a never ending dicussion about the blosphere, the surreal track was the very closed position that Marta Pastor had taken from the beginning of the talk taht won over the hatridge of the whole community behaind the twitter and the first disagreements with the rest of the pannel would hold onto the end of the talk.</p>
<p>There were nicknames for her such as the Sarah Palin of the EBE 08 or the troll of the EBE.</p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-palin.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-880" title="ebe-palin" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-palin-450x300.jpg" alt="" width="450" height="300" /></a>Photo by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wicho/3034743836/">Wicho</a></p>
<p>The next track was the award ceremony Bitacoras.com 2008,  where Arturo Raúl  gave away the awars to the never ending categories very well cordinated, as well as the event by Paniagua (quite a character).</p>
<p><a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-paniagua.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-883" title="ebe-paniagua" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-paniagua-450x300.jpg" alt="" width="450" height="300" /></a></p>
<p>At 10pm the event Beers &amp; Blog took place, we went to a place close to the Hotel walking by an ballon with the shape of an MSN was there to take the lucky winners of  the contest to a ride. <a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-msn.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-881" title="ebe-msn" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-msn-400x300.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="300" /></a></p>
<p>Photo by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/aarrieta/3033074790/">me</a></p>
<p>The section Beers  &amp; Blogs was another time for networking, where we could exchange impression and deepen relationships.</p>
<p>Here the memorable thing was looking to the crow getting closer and closer to the door wher the food was coming out from and how little the food and drinks trays lasted.</p>
<p>After a little more of 2 hours of devouring the trays, drinking sales started. In fact this generated a a discontent on some people, where it was mention to be a rip off and that it was misunderstood as an open bar for just 10 euros.</p>
<p>One of the organizers (I believe it was Luis) went on a stage and with the attitude you should have on the Internet, showing his face, admiting the mistake and proposing a solution was able to calm the audience and to get an applause from the crowd.</p>
<p>The solution was to offer returning the money to the people that felt dissapointed and I don&#8217;t think that he had to give any money back. One more time chappau to the event coordinators.</p>
<p>I know that the celebration lasted until late hours of the night and some stories that I&#8217;ve heard is better that they stay untold, I went to sleep when everybody was still standing. <a href="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-bb.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-882" title="ebe-bb" src="http://arielarrieta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/ebe-bb-400x300.jpg" alt="" width="400" height="300" /></a>Photo by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/lordzoltan/3038573730/">Lord Zoltan</a></p>
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<p><small>© aarrieta for <a href="http://arielarrieta.com">Ariel Arrieta  [D-MTKG]</a>, 2008. |
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